But although they appear happy, there are fears forest department will decide the monkey can't look after the puppy and separate them.
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While the video is interesting and follow up would also be worthwhile I doubt very much that there is adoption taking place. I also believe that the total lack of response from maker of the video, the research team leader, and the TV channel that showed the "documentary" to numerous requests from myself and othe primatologists says it all. This is probably no more than a cleverly edited video and commentary.
I would be delighted to find otherwise. The easiest point to clear on this is leopards are considered extinct in Saudi and have been for years. There are wolves and hyenas but few if any in the area this occurred. With regards to a the beach in South America - without knowing where it was with people camping it does not sound all that remote to me and presumably dogs there had been introduced by people in the first place so I don't see that this has much connection to dogs being "adopted" by baboons.
Where I live in Africa humans use dogs for hunting but also regularly kill and eat their own "pet" dogs. Nobody denies that humans keep pets so maybe killing and eating companion animals and keeping pets are not mutually exclusive. Angela -- can you tell me more about this? Where in Africa, what groups, what is the "pet" status of the dogs, how frequently are dogs eaten, etc.
This is an important observation, as I have been looking for examples of pet-eating. It is fairly unusual in most of Africa for people to eat dogs.
You make no mention of where this occurs so I guess it would be in areas where there has been recent conflict and "bush food" is also commonly traded and eaten. Again I doubt this is significant so far as baboons "adopting" dogs is concerned.follow site
Baboons Might Kidnap Puppies (But Not As Pets) | Psychology Today
I remember seeing this clip a while back and was like the rest quite intrigued. I have also not been able to find any other relevant information on the topic apart from the video itself, which I grant could very well be misleading for novelty purposes. If anyone has any updates on the info or verification rather it would be cool to know.
I toyed with the idea of going down there myself after my phd, but as mentioned the visa requirements makes it quite a challenge. If this interspecies cooperation is accurate it would be well worth studying though! Yes indeed!! It can be seen soon on Arte TV as per this link and will be available to view for a week afterwards.
Sadly I don't think there will be an English language version. That's perfect timing, thanks for the tip! I doubt my french is up to the task but I'm sure i can coerce some exchange students to see it with me.
Does make you wonder if there is a connection between the lack of replies from the director and this documentary, i. No idea if they are affiliated or not, just a thought. Either way it will no doubt be interesting! The coming film has no connection to the earlier one other than they are both French.
This coming one has been made by a professional animal film crew who went specifically to look into the baboon dog interaction specifically and more closely. Been in the pipeline for a while. Hi Duncan, Was there any real evidence that the baboons are actually kidnaping puppies and raising them as pets?
- The Uncompromising Diary of Sallie McNeill, 1858-1867 (Centennial Series of the Association of Former Students, Texas A&M University).
- Now Noida raises monkey menace, stray cattle and dogs.
- Do Baboons Keep Dogs As Pets?.
- Real Men Have Fangs.
Hi Hal, Until we see this latest show I cant really comment but I am wary because the primatologist who managed to et them to go there and film was not himself able to go so it may be the film crew went with pre-conceived ideas based on that previous "documentary". I do know that there are baboons and dogs seen together where there is food in other areas and that this crew did go to other parts of the country. I have heard that they say the dogs did stick with the baboons but how far away from the rubbish dumps they followed them with camera equipment in rugged country I don't know.
The areas I have seen away from the dump near Taif where people give baboons food directly I never saw dogs. I have not heard anyone say they have seen baboons eating dogs but possibly this could happen if a dog died for whatever reason, I don't know. Definitely potential remains for a long term scientific study of this sitation and these desert dogs in general. I discovered the YouTube video yesterday and have been thinking about it since.
Raising Money For Monkey's House An Animal Sanctuary Inc
It seems likely that the adoption aspect has been exaggerated, but a high level of species interaction is apparent, and the relationship is unlikely to be equal. This is a pack of feral dogs, and not a pack of wolves. Selective breeding has enhanced two important traits in domestic dogs; submissive behaviour and an increased reliance on visual stimuli giving them a greater understanding of gestures and facial expressions.
These traits allow them to fit neatly within a human social structure. Therefore it seems likely that the dogs in question, whether stray or wild born, have essentially transferred their automatic sub-ordinance from humans to another species of higher primate. There would seem to be a question as to why the baboons would tolerate the dogs, if predator avoidance is not a major concern.
If food is abundant, then competition between the species may not be a factor. In which case, there is no advantage to the baboons in risking injury through expelling the dogs, and the presence of a submissive, social species would certainly be of interest to inquisitive and playful higher primates. Alternatively, if there is competition for food, it is possible that a dominant male would be more tolerant of submissive dogs associating with his harem than he would of rival males.
Moreover, if the dogs are as fully integrated into the harems as the video states, they may attack any rival males, offering a clear advantage for the dominant male. These two possibilities could be loosely described as pet and guard dog. Both are feasible, as is a combination of the two; humans appreciate the combination of guardian and play thing.
Dogs were initially bred by humans for herding or pulling sleds. The early domesticated dogs were more tool than pet, but as humans became more successful at producing food it allowed the creation of a pure pet. Lack of food is often the limiting factor, as the adoptee often starves or becomes a meal of the hungry adopter. Rhodri Jones is that the youtube taken from the Animal Adoption series you refer to or this latest documentary from Arte TV on evolution? Sadly my understanding of French is minimal so I still need to find a French speaker to sit and watch this latest 42 minute production with me.
They have certainly captured some excellent footage. My comments therefore are preliminary based only on what I see. Firstly how domestication of dogs occurred is still, and probably always will be, speculative. We do know that the type of dogs involved here have lived in the Arabian peninsula since Neolithic times. They are depicted on rock carvings with human hunters. More recently some are used by Bedouin as watch dogs to warn of intruders in the camps as well as around flocks. They are not used to herd in any way and are not selectively bred.
There are probably more living free than with Bedouin.
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If the Bedouin need any more dogs they simply collect a puppy from a den. To my mind this in itself makes a long term scientific study of these dogs well worth while. We really have little factual information about them, how long they live on average, average litter size and variation and a host of other factors. I agree there is no comparison between dogs and wolves. Dogs are scavengers, wolves are hunters primarily. They are not truly feral in that feral usually describes domestic dogs that have recently escaped from being kept as pets. These have lived on their own for thousands of years.
These dogs can also not truly be called strays as they have not strayed from a life as pets. Keeping of dogs as pets has traditionally been frowned upon in this part of the world. It is possible to bring these dogs into a life as a pet but they are not your average submissive dog. Many are turned in to vets with requests to euthanize them by expats who find them difficult to handle and they certainly do not react well to attempts to dominate them forcibly in the outdated "pack leader" style as shown in a television series.
They are inclined to make their own independent decisions, something that not every dog owner likes. This is how they have survived in harsh conditions for as long as they have. Abundance of food is certainly a factor, both from the general open dumps and from food deliberately dropped by humans.
Other species of baboons in Africa tolerate other non-predatory species around water holes but they all disperse to different feeding areas. Baboons do get sufficiently curious to handle young antelope given the chance. Baboons would have little risk of injury expelling the dogs if they so desired, certainly less than in chasing of competitor baboons. Often in the rubbish dumps several baboon troops may intermingle, dispersing at night into their separate groups.
There is no recorded observation of dogs becoming involved in baboon fights but they do drive off predators such as hyenas and also stranger adult dogs. This is normal dog behaviour.